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Ruby CLR garners Tech Ed attention
Python, Perl, Ruby, and Ruby on Rails are tearing up the open source world, and there is some reason to believe this will have repercussions in .NET. Among the technical issues considered at Tech Ed in Boston this year was use of new scripting languages in the .NET Framework.
Ruby has been described as an object-oriented scripting language. It was influenced by SmallTalk and invented by Yukihiro Matsumoto, a.k.a Matz. Ruby on Rails is a specialized framework for rapidly developing database-oriented web apps using the Model-View-Control pattern. The languages are finding favor in one of the areas that Visual Basic long dominated,that is rapid application development.
A Tech Ed dual-session on John Lam’s work on Ruby and the CLR as well as Microsoft’s work on IronPython drew considerable interest.
Among the major benefits of Ruby, said Lam, are that it is dynamically typed, and easy to work with. In his words “Ruby has a very high signal-to-noise ratio.” When coupled to CLR, Ruby can benefit from fast operation and the extensive grouping of
.NET libraries, he said.
Also at the session, Mahesh Prakriya of the CLR team at Microsofot described IronPython 1.0, which went to Beta 7 in May. IronPython is a Microsoft-build version of Python, the long-standing object-oriented language. He said Microsoft has built IronPython to be fast, and has included full dynamic reflection support.
The well-attended session may bear out that notion that, while object languages such as C# and VB.NET are the central languages of .NET, for developers looking to benefit from simple dynamic languages, scripting languages are increasingly being ported to the environment.
TheServerSide.NET talked with Lam in the weeks leading up to Tech Ed. Here are some of his comments on Ruby trends.
We are at a tipping point now with dynamic languages. And the Microsoft people know that. Iron Python is at the core of the dynamic language movement.
The killer scenario for use of Ruby for the CLR is on the client side. That has to do with the nature of Ruby itself today. Right now, the interpreter is a single-threaded interpreter. How Rails allows you to do Ruby on the server is it lets you spawn multiple instances.
If you look at the [reasons for the formation of the] Ruby community, it is really just an elegant programming language. I think it attracts the alpha geeks.
They could be Java ‘guys’ by day or .NET ‘guys’ by day, but Ruby users at night.
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Message #211391
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Sugestion for MS boys at Redmond
With all these progress in dynamic languages for the CLR I think it's time for MS to get serious about this and take the next step.
If you didn't know already, its very likely that Java 6 (Mustang) will be shipped with a Javascript engine (powered by Rhino) ready to be used as a complement to the Java language and JVM platform in general.
I believe that MS should (must!) do the same and include the runtime of one of the dynamic languages already implemented for the CLR in the next release of the .NET framework, and give support to it, documentation, VS add-ins and everything else. From the marketing point of view, this could be a very good move since it will probably drive people from the dynamic side of the fence toward the .net platform. Mono people should think about it too.
I see a trend emerging here, that the inmediate generation of software will be based in the combination of a hard core language such as Java or C# backed by a powerful and fast dynamic language such as Python or Ruby, both running on top of a VM, being the JVM or the CLR. Or even the other way around, only time will tell.
My personal preference is IronPython, hope it gets there!
Vamos Ecuador a ganar!
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Message #211437
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Re: Sugestion for MS boys at Redmond
How about MS stop treating JScript.Net as the red headed stepchild of the VS family and give it full support? It's been around since day 1 but has garnered so little respect and attention. I almost thought about dipping my toe into the VS ad-in area to see about creating some developer tools for the language. Alas, it never was to be...
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Message #211457
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Re: Sugestion for MS boys at Redmond
How about MS stop treating JScript.Net as the red headed stepchild of the VS family and give it full support? It's been around since day 1 but has garnered so little respect and attention. I almost thought about dipping my toe into the VS ad-in area to see about creating some developer tools for the language. Alas, it never was to be...
Excuse my ignorance, but what is jscript.net?
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Message #211596
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Re: Sugestion for MS boys at Redmond
That's exactly my point! I've always wondered why if there are *real* languages out there that can be used in .net (or win32 for all the purposes) development, MS keeps pushing that VisualBasic big fat joke down our throats? They even turned it into an object oriented language that still feels like old VB with pointless syntactic gotchas. Sorry VB guys out there, it's just my opinion.
Even if it's true that you can use Python or Javascript for scripting (old ASP, WSH, etc.) people have a tendency to use whatever is the default, and unfortunately that happens to be VBScript. Speacking about classic ASP, Javascript has always been there for us to code server-side applications, but how many of the big ASP sites were developed using it? Now we have JScript.net but, hell, even most of MSDN code samples for it are "missing" for no reason. I think it's time for a change.
Grande Ecuador!!! 3-0
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Message #211605
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Re: Sugestion for MS boys at Redmond
That's exactly my point! I've always wondered why if there are *real* languages out there that can be used in .net (or win32 for all the purposes) development, MS keeps pushing that VisualBasic big fat joke down our throats
I would think that they are pushing c# far more than vb.net
Can you please explain your reasoning (for my own edification at least)
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Message #211682
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Re: Sugestion for MS boys at Redmond
Sure!
There was a time when VB was MS'flag language even in detriment of C++ that has always been there. Then, they finally hired a good language designer (and looked at Java..) and devised C# which is, as you say, the first option for .Net development.
The problem, at least for what I've seen, is that in MS' world, VB is still seen/used as the first option for scripting, "complimentary" tasks and dynamic programming hindering the adoption of better languages as the ones mentioned in the headline of this post.
Javascript may not be perfect but it's WAY better that VB and still has got eclipsed by it several times, jscript.net being the most recent victim. Good thing VB Script in Internet Explorer never took off or you would be doing AJAX in VB, there's a thought for you...
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Message #218147
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Isn't JavaScript the Real Dynamic Language Core?
It's easy to overlook the ones you depend on the most.
Hasn't JavaScript been the one that has actually delivered on the promise of Java (Write once run anywhere)?
I thing JS popularity is only just beginning.
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Language "mashups" will become more prominent, and developers will become polyglots, one programmer suggests.
SearchWinDevelopment.com offers an introduction to the language, performance, testing and data management improvements in VS 2008.
VBCode.com code snippets cover all aspects of application development, from data binding to security to the user interface.
Get up to date on XAML best practices with a variety of articles, tutorials and webcasts. [SearchWinDevelopment.com]
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