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Microsoft Certified Architect Program in Pilot
At TechEd 2005, the Microsoft Certified Architect Program moved into pilot, with additional information made available including a potential acceptance fee of as much as $10,000 and the fact that only three of seven applicants were accepted by the infrastructure board.
The company hasn't finalized the fee yet but provides a guideline in the high four to low five figures, so $10,000 is a reasonable estimate. Most candidates are likely to seek sponsorship from their employers to cover these costs.
Some people are starting to notice Microsoft's new certification: Microsoft Certified Architect.
When it was in beta, the MCA program was previously discussed on TheServerSide.NET.
Now that it's in the "pilot phase" (though they haven't updated their documentation to say so), more information has become available (like the requirement of 10 years experience and that the four-member certification board will be composed only of previously-certified architects). The experience of one person going through the program can be found here.
There has also been mention of an associate architect program for people wanting to grow into the role of solutions architect (see some of the previous links).
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Message #181038
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oh yeah, throw money at the problem
at that price, no hardcore programmer (not really, it's a joke) is going to bother to get that certification. If a business needs a good architect, sending an average programmer to get certified is going to do nothing, other than spend lots of money with nothing to show for it.
businesses are better off hiring a real consultant that actually knows their stuff and have first hand experience using a specific technology. it's so much fun to see MS try to squeeze more money out of developers. Is that what Ballmer meant, when he said "developers, developers, developers?"
</sarcasm>
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Message #181039
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oh yeah, right. uh?
businesses are better off hiring a real consultant that actually knows their stuff and have first hand experience using a specific technology. it's so much fun to see MS try to squeeze more money out of developers. Is that what Ballmer meant, when he said "developers, developers, developers?"</sarcasm> I went through the MCA process (sucessfully) and I also sat on the review board. Both experiences were quite humbling, I have to say. I've rarely seen to many excellent people in such a short period of time. The money you pay to MS is practially going out the other door to cover the (not excessive by any means) stipend and expenses for the people who sit on the board. Or did you think you can get four top-qualified external people to sit on the review board and pay for it, too?
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Message #181043
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It's only expensive compared to what you receive in return
My first thought when writing this news post was "Dang, how in the heck am I gonna pay for that!". I believe I meet the requirements for candidacy for the MCA (as Peter most likely does also) and fully intend to try for the certification as soon as I con, er... beg, er... convince another MCA to nominate me. </blatant butt="kissing">
So why would an independent contractor get this certification, particularly at that expense? Simple, to set myself apart from the competition both in terms of skills but also in terms of billable rate.
It's no secret that many of the things that industry experts do to get their name out don't actually pay very well. Speaking at conferences and user groups, writing books, or even articles (except of course for writing for TSS.NET) don't pay anything near what they cost in time and effort. So why do it then? For those hourly consulting rates. I know from personal experience that people who have written even mediocre books on .NET technologies are commanding as much as $300/hr in consulting fees and getting it. Much like an actor who wins an Oscar suddenly becomes the $20,000,000 man, adding an elite MCA to your resume you too can command those types of rates (or so I would believe). A few weeks of consulting at that rate will more than cover a $10,000 up front expense. So that makes it a good business investment, IF you've got the chops.
Now, with the financial aspect dealt with, the real reason I would want to do this is simply to be recognized by my peers as having acheived a certain level of mastery with software design and architecture. Don't take lightly what Clemens said in his post about the level of people in the room with you or acting as your mentor. The architects on the review board are not Microsoft program lackeys, they're seriously experienced architects who generally know more than you do. Even if you fail miserably you'll end up learning a lot.
Speaking of mentoring, how much would it cost to get somebody like an MCA board member to give you 40 hours of mentoring over a year? At $300/hr that would cost $12,000. See, you've already saved $2,000.
In the end though, the $10,000 fee will also keep out the riff-raff of applicants looking to just add another MCx behind their name, and that is always a good thing.
Paul Ballard, MCSD, MCAD, MCSE... :-)
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Message #181066
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Value
My thinking is on similar lines in terms of value to individuals.
I would also add that too many people are calling themselves architects these days. In some people's minds the terms seems to mean "really good coder" or "senior programmer" or something similar. I don't want the term "architect" to become meaningless, since it's an important and valid role in real-world projects, distinct from the roles of "senior developer" and "DBA", for example.
I don't know if the MCA will be the certification to accomplish this (I hope it does), or if it's one of the other industry efforts aimed at giving back some meaning to the role (or a combination of all/some of them), but I hope we get there. Not everyone is or wants to be an architect. But let's at least agree on some common definitions, even if they're not perfect.
Of course, none of the certifications will mean that "these are the only skilled architects", but if having the certification greatly increases the likihood that someone has the skills you need, then I think you, as a stakeholder, win. I also hope, of course, the architect with the certification will be able to charge a rate more in line with their role and abilities, instead of one corresponding to "really good coder", should an architect be what's needed in the given situation.
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Message #181082
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A small skit
Boss: Jim, we were thinking of enrolling you in the "Microsoft Certified Architect" program ..
Jim: Wow, that sounds great.
Boss: Great, we were hoping you would feel that way, all you need to do is sign this paper that states if you leave the company within the next two years you need to pay the $5,000 dollar fee back.
Jim: Uh ummm ... (begins to daydream of his boss telling him there's a new PHP project starting on an off-shore oil rig in the baltic sea and he's the only free who can do the job. Does he start packing or sell his car so he can quit?)
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Message #181086
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It's only expensive compared to what you receive in return
Paul Ballard, MCSD, MCAD, MCSE... :-)
Why claim to be both MCSD and MCAD? Is a MCSD also a MCAD anyway?
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Message #181089
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I cheat and find experts and work with them
My first thought when writing this news post was "Dang, how in the heck am I gonna pay for that!". I believe I meet the requirements for candidacy for the MCA (as Peter most likely does also) and fully intend to try for the certification as soon as I con, er... beg, er... convince another MCA to nominate me. </blatant butt="kissing">
So why would an independent contractor get this certification, particularly at that expense? Simple, to set myself apart from the competition both in terms of skills but also in terms of billable rate. It's no secret that many of the things that industry experts do to get their name out don't actually pay very well. Speaking at conferences and user groups, writing books, or even articles (except of course for writing for TSS.NET) don't pay anything near what they cost in time and effort. So why do it then? For those hourly consulting rates. I know from personal experience that people who have written even mediocre books on .NET technologies are commanding as much as $300/hr in consulting fees and getting it. Much like an actor who wins an Oscar suddenly becomes the $20,000,000 man, adding an elite MCA to your resume you too can command those types of rates (or so I would believe). A few weeks of consulting at that rate will more than cover a $10,000 up front expense. So that makes it a good business investment, IF you've got the chops.
Now, with the financial aspect dealt with, the real reason I would want to do this is simply to be recognized by my peers as having acheived a certain level of mastery with software design and architecture. Don't take lightly what Clemens said in his post about the level of people in the room with you or acting as your mentor. The architects on the review board are not Microsoft program lackeys, they're seriously experienced architects who generally know more than you do. Even if you fail miserably you'll end up learning a lot. Speaking of mentoring, how much would it cost to get somebody like an MCA board member to give you 40 hours of mentoring over a year? At $300/hr that would cost $12,000. See, you've already saved $2,000.In the end though, the $10,000 fee will also keep out the riff-raff of applicants looking to just add another MCx behind their name, and that is always a good thing.
Paul Ballard, MCSD, MCAD, MCSE... :-)
Luckily for me, I've managed to find really great people to work with and listen very closely. I'm probably different than most people, but I have no desire at all to get certified for anything. Doesn't really matter if it's MCA, J2EE, SAP or Oracle. Please take my sarcasm with a ton of salt. I'm sure the individuals mentoring in the program are highly qualified, but mentoring isn't the same thing as actually building the application.
I appreciate all the mentoring I've recieved over the years from experts with 10-15 yrs experience, but in most cases, it wasn't until I had to do a particular thing myself that it became really concrete. Of course, it helps that I've worked with people that have gone through these pains, and I reduce the amount of hair pulling on my part by remembering their lessons. It's not really a limitation of certification programs. It's just human nature.
regardless of my sarcasm, the price is pretty steep, though probably more practical than getting a masters degree in CS.
peter
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Message #181096
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I cheat and find experts and work with them
It's just human nature.regardless of my sarcasm, the price is pretty steep, though probably more practical than getting a masters degree in CS.peter
Couldn't agree more.
BTW the idea of mentoring some one to be an architect is very oxymoron. You can not make some one an architect just throwing some books and training; and make him/her pass the exam. Alas now a days programming world is so shallow (thanks for forum like this). To put things in perspective I want to quote Mr. Bjarne Stroutsrup "There is not any substitue for intelligence, experience and taste of programming" Hope in 10,000$ MS can cross this point to their future architects and some of the MSD, MCD on this forum:-)
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Message #181097
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slight clarification
It's just human nature.regardless of my sarcasm, the price is pretty steep, though probably more practical than getting a masters degree in CS.peter Couldn't agree more. BTW the idea of mentoring some one to be an architect is very oxymoron. You can not make some one an architect just throwing some books and training; and make him/her pass the exam. Alas now a days programming world is so shallow (thanks for forum like this). To put things in perspective I want to quote Mr. Bjarne Stroutsrup "There is not any substitue for intelligence, experience and taste of programming" Hope in 10,000$ MS can cross this point to their future architects and some of the MSD, MCD on this forum:-)
re-reading my post, I don't mean to say education is completely worthless. Education serves a purpose, be it certification or going to get a masters degree. It's all up to each individual to take the material and apply it concretely. If someone is able to take the material and build a complete application, the time is more than worth while.
What I find bad in the IT industry are managers that rely on certs to hire employees and doesn't know any better. I'm sure everyone has met atleast one manager like that. Good managers know better and make sure to get a developer they trust to review the person. I've worked for more than one manager who couldn't tell a programmer if he was in a room full of hard core coders.
10K cert definitely excludes many people and limits it to those who really can afford it. Someone top notch with 3-4 years of experience won't be able to afford the cert. the economics of it make me question, "who is the cert really meant for?"
peter
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Message #181101
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slight clarification
re-reading my post, I don't mean to say education is completely worthless.
Neither did I. Education and formal training is absolute necessary in every course of life. I personally would pick a BS in CS candidate over any certificate or even over a candidate who has master in CS with bachelor in some other major. But I am strongly opposed to the idea where MS, SUN or indiviual entities start touting and preaching the definition of an architect.
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Message #181105
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Let me draw you a picture...
Paul Ballard, MCSD, MCAD, MCSE... :-) Why claim to be both MCSD and MCAD? Is a MCSD also a MCAD anyway?
That was a joke George...
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Message #181107
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I cheat and find experts and work with them
BTW the idea of mentoring some one to be an architect is very oxymoron. You can not make some one an architect just throwing some books and training; and make him/her pass the exam. That is why you have to have 10 years of architecture experience just to apply. The mentoring and certification program doesn't MAKE you an architect. It most likely will make you a BETTER architect. But you walk in the door already an architect. The certification is just an independent (of you) way to show that you know what you say you know..
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Message #181108
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If you have to ask, you can't afford it...
10K cert definitely excludes many people and limits it to those who really can afford it. Someone top notch with 3-4 years of experience won't be able to afford the cert. the economics of it make me question, "who is the cert really meant for?"
Somebody with 3-4 years of experience shouldn't qualify for this certification. If you've got 10 years or so of experience then odds are pretty good that you can afford it as you're probably commanding a pretty high salary or bill rate. I don't see the cost as prohibitive. After all, look how many people enter the World Series of Poker only to go home broke.
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Message #181118
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I cheat and find experts and work with them
BTW the idea of mentoring some one to be an architect is very oxymoron. You can not make some one an architect just throwing some books and training; and make him/her pass the exam. That is why you have to have 10 years of architecture experience just to apply. The mentoring and certification program doesn't MAKE you an architect. It most likely will make you a BETTER architect. But you walk in the door already an architect. The certification is just an independent (of you) way to show that you know what you say you know..
So...if you are already an architect....why bother to pay 10K?
Just because you get an MS certificate saying they believe you are an architect?
BS!
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Message #181123
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I cheat and find experts and work with them
I think this is because some companies prefer to hire someone with certification rather than experience...which reminds me of people I know (certified) that can't even design a descent application. Oh well that's the trend nowadays...?
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Message #181151
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I cheat and find experts and work with them
So...if you are already an architect....why bother to pay 10K?Just because you get an MS certificate saying they believe you are an architect?BS! How does anyone know you're an architect? There's really no way unless you've worked with someone. However, having a certification like this, if it turns out to do its job, makes it much more likely that the person actually is able to do the job.
Now, if they don't do it right, it will be useless and no one will believe it. If they do it right, however, it could be valueable for stakeholders and architects alike.
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Message #181153
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I cheat and find experts and work with them
BTW the idea of mentoring some one to be an architect is very oxymoron. You can not make some one an architect just throwing some books and training; and make him/her pass the exam. Mentoring is not the same thing as training and reading books. Mentoring is often for solidifying experience and formalizing thinking, as well as criticism to challenge assumptions, encourage growth, etc.
If you read the descriptions and goals of the MCA, you'll see that the point of the MCA is to certify existing architects, people that already are working as architects. It is not like a degree in any way. A degree is intended to say you're educated. This certification is intended to say you're experienced and capable.
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Message #181159
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Not really about technology...
This type of thread is always disturbing to me, it seems way too much like trying to redefine the issue in terms of a nice technical thing that technical folks can be confortable with. So, in the 'what employers want' column, what employers want are solutions, that might be technology, and if it involves technology, they don't want to be confronted with the usual array of fantastical programmer vocabulary words or technical attitude. They don't want to understand the technical issues except to wrap you in a self negotiating session to lower your price or time estimate. They don't want to feel stupid. They don't want to have a respected certification, programmers do in some strange quest for 'respect as a profession'.
Employers do want inexpensive solutions that work, and employees that are effective in delivering them, and in some cases that are compliant and cheerful in delivering them. They are very willing to use the lowest bidder that appears competent, becuase price is often a far more tangible constraint where as the opportunity cost of failure can be tempered with sheer optimism that the lowest bidder will work out.
So, restating, employers want technical employees that don't look or act like traditional technical employees, not more/deeper certification of technical skill.
What would really be of benefit was education of effective requirements elicitation and factoring from 'named goal' to 'running system' while getting leverage between requirements to do the minimum amount of work, which is the straightest line to the lowest cost. Continuing to assume the problem is about technical skill is missing the real issues, costs & clarity.
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Message #181171
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Not really about technology...
So you're describing an architect. Cool. You description, I think, is covered quite well by what the MCA is actually trying to certify.
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Message #181178
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If you have to ask, you can't afford it...
10K cert definitely excludes many people and limits it to those who really can afford it. Someone top notch with 3-4 years of experience won't be able to afford the cert. the economics of it make me question, "who is the cert really meant for?"
Somebody with 3-4 years of experience shouldn't qualify for this certification. If you've got 10 years or so of experience then odds are pretty good that you can afford it as you're probably commanding a pretty high salary or bill rate. I don't see the cost as prohibitive. After all, look how many people enter the World Series of Poker only to go home broke.
I agree and disagree :)
I've met a few individuals who really were exceptional. For example, I have a close friend who attended 2 years of college for CS, but was so bored he left to start working. this individual was programming in several languages by the time he entered high school and is capable in C, C++, Perl, assembly and few other languages. I've also met kids between 10-14 years old that could write complex partical animations in assembly. these individuals are not the norm. Having those skills don't necessarily mean they would be good architects.
Depending on the job and the type of application, I think someone with 3-5 years of experience could be an architect. If we were talking about a large financial application, then it's rather unlikely someone with 5 yrs of experience is going to know enough to do a good job. enterprise applications come in all shapes and sizes, so MCA is just one factor to guage an individual's ability.
then again, why not just look at open source programmers. instead of guessing, they can look at the actual application and the code. my bias half pence.
peter
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Message #181195
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I cheat and find experts and work with them
As you've seen posted many times, ANYBODY can say their an architect. This just means you've proven it to somebody. As for Microsoft being the agency that validates "architects", I'd rather it be an independent organization but nobody else has stepped up.
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Message #181196
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Other Efforts
Actually, there are other efforts for this, but none so far along. The Open Group is one. More on it here. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding around it, too, but I also think they're setting the bar too low (but I admit that I'm not very familiar with it).
I like broad industry efforts like that, but I think that groups that have to earn a living on real results (like Microsoft) often do a better job than consortiums like that.
It will be very interesting to see these evolve. I hope it at least helps us gain a better understanding and agreement about the role of an architect, separate from the role of a programmer, DBA, etc.
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Message #181333
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Microsoft Certified Architect Program in Pilot
It's nice to see that they finally have a certification that sounds worthwhile, but I think they will suffer from the credibility gap of all of their previous certs having been more about knowing which of their product stack was recommended in which situations by their marketing literature, and what all the hidden tabs and dialogs did in their product set-up screens.
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Message #181499
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Wrong title for a "Solutions Architect"?
After reading Microsoft’s description of the “Program Disciplines” of a Solutions Architect I really have to wonder if they are using the term Architect differently than most software developers would. I think a more appropriate title for their description would be “Technical Business Analyst.”
I thought the Infrastructure Architect description came close to matching what I thought an Infrastructure Architect would be (then again I am a software developer and not an infrastructure specialist).
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Message #181583
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Wrong title for a "Solutions Architect"?
This certification is very technical, but is also well-rounded. Of course, there are many definitions of what the word "architect" means and what a software architect does.
In my experience, Microsoft's definition pretty well captures what being a solutions architect is all about. The technologies, technical and organizational leadership, politics, communication, etc.--these are all day to day activities of an architect in my experience. Of course, I still think the largest block of my time is spent doing designs and coding. But if I wasn't able to do the other stuff, the stakeholders would seldom get what they wanted and needed.
But it is a tough job to define what an architect is.
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Message #181711
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10k$ and z JBoss/Longhorn Server match outsider
Well if MS want to recognize and filter the so-called architect troop why not.
is it a sacarsm? i want to save the page with IE (xp sp2) and IE failed lamentably. so i use firefox and it works. At the price of $10 000, is it the most we could expect from a so called architect leader?
MS have done a very great work with .NET and will continue i'm sure with Sql Server 2005 at least. on the other hand ms had real problems with the sliping milestones madness (see the slow mover and Software Assurance ROI debate) on the other hand, the only credibility MS had on architecture is BizTalk which isn't a block buster, Indigo-WCF isn't yet in production mode
The question is MSCA really efficient today, or will be operational in 2-3 years? Perhabs after Longhorn Server? So will 2-3 years will be enough to? When architecture likes JCRON, JMS, JTA will be available on microsoft
cordially
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Message #181777
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Different Things?
Are you talking about certifying people as software architects, or certifying the architecture of a system?
I don't understand how what you're saying has any relation at all to the topic.
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Message #192079
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Wrong title for a "Solutions Architect"?
But it is a tough job to define what an architect is.
Nope, it is not difficult at all. There is a clear definition for what a architect is.
But people trying to twist the definition so it fits whatever they are currently doing are the ones actually making this simple concept more hard to understand than needed.
http://www.wwisa.org/wwisamain/role.htm
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Message #195155
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Microsoft Certified Architect Program in Pilot
Deciding whether or not the MCA is good for you is a personal choice. If you think it will contribute to your career and you can get the money, go for it. If your employer will pay for it, you’re very lucky indeed! If not, you’ll probably need to do a cost-benefit analysis. Trying to predict whether such a cost would contribute to future earnings is no easy thing, and achieving the cert is no guarantee of future earnings. As for me, the money I’ve earned and the jobs I’ve gotten as a consultant or FTE were attributable to factors that did not involve certifications. I would also not look to the cert as a means to acquire respect from peers; respect is not awarded on paper. This all being said, if you like a challenge, and you are rewarded by accomplishing difficult goals, go for it. I've talked to people who've gone through the process, and it sounds like a valuable experience.
In his book, "After the Gold Rush" (http://www.stevemcconnell.com/gr-badges.htm)
, Steve McConnell argues for professional certs for software engineers similar to those required of other engineering professions. I would agree with him that an industry-based cert might be better than a vendor-backed cert. Regardless, I think this is a sign that our industry is maturing.
Concerning the term "Architect", here’s my take on the role ...
What Does it Mean to be a Software Architect? - Part I
http://www.designpatternsfor.net/default.aspx?pid=5
What Does it Mean to be a Software Architect? – Part II
http://www.designpatternsfor.net/default.aspx?pid=19
The Hard Skills are the Soft Skills
http://www.designpatternsfor.net/default.aspx?pid=25
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TSS.NET's Jack Vaughan spoke recently spoke with Microsoft's Brad Abrams to find out what he is seeing in the field and what the chefs in Redmond are cooking. Along the way he discusses patterns of AJAX frameworks.
(April 11, Article)
In a two-part series, Michele Leroux Bustamente explains how claims-based security is supported by WCF, and how you can implement a claims-based security model for your services.
(March 29, Article)
Windows Workflow Foundation is a new technology that many developers will need to get their heads around. In a brief excerpt adapted from Programming Windows Workflow Foundation: Practical WF Techniques and Examples using XAML and C#, K.Scott Allen considers aspects of workflow definition.
(March 22, Chapter Excerpt)
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