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Microsoft Talks about New Architect Certification
Microsoft Learning Lead Product Manager Al Valvano discussed some of the details of the upcoming Microsoft Certified Architect program. This certification will require much more than a few tests including oral presentations, written submissions, and a peer panel review.
This certification will involve much more than simply Microsoft product knowledge with only about 25% of the tests being Microsoft specific. Other areas will include project management, verbal and written communication skills, and knowledge of designing systems using mixed technologies.- The MCAP will consist of prerequisite training and experience, and the skills domain that candidates will face throughout the process will be broad, including such objectives as project management, decision making and oral and verbal communication. Valvano said it's too early to give any definition to those requirements, and wouldn't say whether any of the current exams or training in the MCP program would be applicable to the MCAP.
- Candidates will be assigned a mentor to help foster success through the program's rigorous certification process. Valvano said that mentors will come from Microsoft as well as externally chosen sources.
- Candidates, with the help of the mentor, would apply for entrance registration into the architecture candidate process, which consists of a written submission and board examinations. Valvano said that details on what the written submission process and who would be on the peer-review board were still in development. Valvano compared the process to attaining a Ph.D, where a candidate has to defend a thesis.
- Valvano stressed that only about a quarter of the emphasis of a candidate's knowledge will be on Microsoft-related architecture technologies; the rest will relate to general architecture principles and best practices that aren't Microsoft specific. A candidate for the MCAP will have to have a broad-based knowledge that extends well beyond the narrow bounds of Windows.
- Finally, Valvano estimated that completion of the program could take from six to 12 months and would not come cheap. Valvano says that the program is designed to pay for itself; nonetheless, he says that "it will take a substantial commitment in time and money" for both the candidate and the board to come together for all the meetings and tests for completing each step.
Read more about the discussion of the new certification here.
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Message #167130
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Microsoft Talks about New Architect Certification
IF they can pull this off as described above, it could be one of the first credible and relevant new certs to come down the path in a while. I'm sure there are those that will tee off on the idea immediately since it's not technology focused and has directly been compared to a Ph.D. process (RH, I'm looking at you :-), but in actuality the real world needs this kind of scrutiny to give this idea any legs. The idea of architecture certification is nothing new and it should be a rigorous process if you want to attempt it at all - it's a multi-discplinary role with no set path to achieve and do successfully (i.e., there is no "Architect" degree program, work path, etc.).
Very encouraging thoughts so far, but the trick will be in the buy-in and actual execution of the idea. What they need is a big industry player to partner - this was discussed in depth between HP and MS at one point.
Mike
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Message #167131
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Bang for the buck
...only about a quarter of the emphasis of a candidate's knowledge will be on Microsoft-related architecture technologies; the rest will relate to general architecture principles and best practices that aren't Microsoft specific. A candidate for the MCAP will have to have a broad-based knowledge that extends well beyond the narrow bounds of Windows.
This would be an excellent opportunity for Microsoft to have candidates work on and recognize some of the efforts of their interoperability agreement with Sun/J2EE (whenever those are made available). Now THAT would be a value-added skill for Architect certification that would lend it some credibility outside the pure MS advocacy camp.
Mike
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Message #167138
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Give me a break
So now I'm not even an Architect until Microsoft says I am, give me a break. It's about time for a MSFT CERT backlash by the masses ...
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Message #167143
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Leap in logic
So now I'm not even an Architect until Microsoft says I am, give me a break. It's about time for a MSFT CERT backlash by the masses ...
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Message #167144
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Why do they call MCAP?
Microsoft always makes me think, "Oh God, what's wrong now?" With Microsoft, field looks really green until players start walking on it.
First, when only 25% of whole test will be based on Microsoft technologies, why they call it Microsoft CAP? Second, if 75% is general architecture thing, why shouldn't someone get certified by Java? Third, does this certificate really gonna prove, "You're god damn terrific architect?"..I thought being an architect is someone learnt through their experiences not by reading books, attending seminars or by any technical interview...May be I need to change my definition and get MCAP...
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Message #167146
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Leap in logic
Okay, the REAL reply this time:
So now I'm not even an Architect until Microsoft says I am, give me a break. It's about time for a MSFT CERT backlash by the masses ...
That's just a visceral reaction to anything Microsoft sponsored. This is just like saying "oh, so now I'm not a programmer until [insert vendor here] says so through certification". Anyway, even the certified architect idea is nothing new - this has existed in the federal space and even from Sun for years.
It could actually be a good thing if done right, like I said before. After all, how many fools do you meet that call themselves "architects" just for the glamour, perceived value, or just because they want to convey their own importance/experience.
Why do I have the feeling I'm getting ready to spend several days playing devil's advocate?
:-)
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Message #167223
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Architects Running Scared?
I agree, I think that it COULD be a good thing, like any qualification. It states you have a certain capability. There are way too many people going around calling themselves architects and not knowing a design pattern from a goto. It seems that those criticising the efforts of certifications bodies are probably just scared they'll get found out! We are after all one of the only industries where a certain level of qualification in the job is not demanded - Drs, building architects, accountants, lawyers etc. Personally I have no such aspirations I'm happy in my development role. I do think that certifications can be a problem though, because they don't measure experience. It is possible to pass all these certifications by just learning how to pass them. I know this because I worked with a guy who was a very average developer - he then did all the Java certs and got himself a job as an architect!!!!
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Message #167361
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It is first step in the right direction
I would love to see some real serious testing process for an architect title. Along with all requirements mentioned for this certification, there should be some requirement on related professional experience (e.g. 3/5/7 years). And there shoul NOT be any room for question banks, brain dumps etc. At least by going through this process, IMHO, one should be able to gain valuable expereince whether gets through certification or not.
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Message #167401
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Do you have a JOB? Mr. CERTIFIED ARCHITECT
Typical certification nitwit language....
Listen and learn
CERTIFICATION !- ARCHITECT
TAKING CERTIFICATION TESTS != ARCHITECT
Okay, the REAL reply this time:So now I'm not even an Architect until Microsoft says I am, give me a break. It's about time for a MSFT CERT backlash by the masses ... That's just a visceral reaction to anything Microsoft sponsored. This is just like saying "oh, so now I'm not a programmer until [insert vendor here] says so through certification". Anyway, even the certified architect idea is nothing new - this has existed in the federal space and even from Sun for years.It could actually be a good thing if done right, like I said before. After all, how many fools do you meet that call themselves "architects" just for the glamour, perceived value, or just because they want to convey their own importance/experience.Why do I have the feeling I'm getting ready to spend several days playing devil's advocate?:-)
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Message #167402
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TAKING CERTIFICATION TESTS != ARCHITECT
The so-called mentors who ACTUALLY PRODUCTION CODE don't have time to be a mentor....
And just who is Microsoft going to get when they can't even get their own products out the door?
Furthermore, just because you know other technologies again doesn't make you an architect.
"KNOWLEDGE OF NON-MICROSOFT TECHNOLOGIES" != ARCHITECT
Dear Mr. Valvano,
Why don't you actually do some PRODUCTION CODE and actually have to be RESPONSIBLE and ACCOUNTABLE and then you will be an architect.
But then again, why would we need your silly brain dead tests who are only given by those who DO NOT PRODUCTION CODE and spend all their time with TRIVAL questions and whiteboards and never put their hands on a keyboard.....
Ha ha ha ha ha......
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Message #167427
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Do you have a JOB? Mr. CERTIFIED ARCHITECT
Yep - a really high paying one too.
I'm actually glad you chimed in, because I was wondering something: who does the planning on all of the projects you're so busy writing production code for? It can't be you, because you're too busy writing production code to do anything else. And I can't imagine you let anyone with the title "Architect" or whatever else near your projects since anyone who does anything other than write production code all day long doesn't know what they're talking about. So what do you do? Just make it up as you go?
Please enlighten the community - but if you do (doubtful), a request: please use coherent language, complete sentences, avoid the caps lock, and quit copying and pasting the same non-sensical "non-coders don't know anything" mantra. The only reason you have anything to code in the first place is because of someone else doing architecture, design, project management, or the like: pure, heads-down coders have next to no say in development of real-world PRODUCTION systems.
Put up or shut up when the grown-ups are talking.
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Message #167428
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TAKING CERTIFICATION TESTS != ARCHITECT
The so-called mentors who ACTUALLY PRODUCTION CODE don't have time to be a mentor....
...the hell? So then I guess everyone learns from scratch, since the only qualified teachers are too busy to actually teach?
Holy crap - your every utterance subtracts from the sum total of knowledge on this site.
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Message #167468
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Do you have a JOB? Mr. CERTIFIED ARCHITECT
"pure, heads-down coders have next to no say in development of real-world PRODUCTION systems."
Not that I agree with much that r h says (or shouts), I have to disagree with the above, unless you're saying that "pure, heads-down coders" don't actually make good developers, in which case I agree. Taking responsibility for things like design, estimation and testing away from developers turns them into insular morons. Production coders SHOULD be designing, planning, testing, writing articles (books, even - gasp!), conversing on mailing lists and discussion boards, attending and talking at conferences, getting certified, joining expert groups.
It makes the difference between dressing yourself and letting your mother do it for you.
Jim
ThoughtWorks
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Message #167521
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Do you have a JOB? Mr. CERTIFIED ARCHITECT
Hi Jim,
Production coders SHOULD be designing, planning, testing, writing articles (books, even - gasp!), conversing on mailing lists and discussion boards, attending and talking at conferences, getting certified, joining expert groups.
In my meaning, the things you mentioned above wouldn't be done by the heads-down coder: that's a pejorative term we always used for the guy that just wanted to write code to the exclusion of everything else, including doing those things you mentioned above which have the benefit of helping the developer either a) become a better, more well-rounded developer, or b) helping the developer evolve into something else that addresses other aspects of application development.
I think we're talking about the same thing and we actually agree. I don't even know how the "heads down coder" as a defined above can exist for long in today's environment, where development concerns cross so many different boundaries.
Mike
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Message #167550
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r.h. post
r.h, I'm sorry but if you want anyone to take you seriously you are going to have to learn to spell... and produce grammatically correct sentences.
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Message #167617
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This is intriguing...
First, though, about the "all good mentors are busy writing production code" comment... This in my opinion proves the EXACT value of this sort of program. Few true architects are busy writing production code - coding is quickly devolving into a commodity - an important commodity - task. Architecting large-scale products/systems involves everything they appear to be targeting from product management to integration to project management to deployment. In addition, no architect worth his/her salt works in a J2EE or .NET-only world...it's a global SOA world now and flexibility and interoperability are the ticket to entry.
In my book, the higher the barrier to entry and completion to this program, the better. If this is really a year-long serious program, I will consider it closely. If it's a pay my $500, show up and take some test deal, then it's not worth a second glance.
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Message #167696
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Microsoft Talks about New Architect Certification
MS Architect cert? mmm... time for a career change...
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Message #167711
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Solid move all round
Hi there
As a technical architect by trade, there is no doubt "fingers in all pies" is an essential have, which of course includes a solid grasp of MS technologies.
The role of architect is about crafting solutions from a complex mix of technologies, interfaces and standards, and vendor driven courses is but one of the many essential studies IT professionals need to persist to remain market competitive and deliver value to the business.
The typical argument tends to be centered on "raw experience" or "not practical enough". This may be fair enough, but the value of actually taking the time to sit down, read subjects, complete a paper of two, can only be for the better, and I believe too many people take it for granted. Simply reading a website, doing a blog here and there, reading a book from time to time, or just turning up for work, will not give you the edge many businesses are screaming out for.
I look forward to a [challenging] course - if the price is right :)
Cheers
Ck
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Message #167863
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Why do they call MCAP?
>>First, when only 25% of whole test will be based on Microsoft technologies, why they call it Microsoft CAP?
huh?.. M would be 25% of MCAP =o)...
>>Second, if 75% is general architecture thing, why shouldn't someone get certified by Java?
exactly, why shouldn't... what stops them... oh wait, does "Java" have such certifications?
>>Third, does this certificate really gonna prove, "You're god damn terrific architect?"
Well, on the end this is all management crap, managers get impressed by credentials
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Message #167996
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Should be better than SCEA
If they really want to have an architect certification
out there, It's approach should be much better than SCEA
or TOGAF
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Message #168032
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TAKING CERTIFICATION TESTS != ARCHITECT
I guess I don't understand the fear expressed in this thread. If you don't want to aspire to complete the certification, don't write it. If someone has the certification and you don't, who are you to evaluate its validity beyond your own personal opinion?
It reminds me of people commenting about other people's car when they ride the bus, or commenting on a car because they think that BMW is better than Lexus. In the end, you, and similar-minded people, either like it or you don't. It does not invalidate the value of either choice of transportation to the makers of the vehicle as long as their customers share the same value-set.
If you have issues, left unresolved because you feel some degree of inadequacy when people have something that you do not, or that you feel that putting others down makes you a bigger person, those issues are better dealt with among friends, family, or with a counsellor.
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Message #168189
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New cert.
Look so interesting, but I'm worried about "oral presentations, written submissions, and a peer panel review", "will be assigned a mentor"... what if I'm not in U.S? what if I live in a country where English is second-language? does MS localize this cert. for other countries? do I have to pass this certification for working as an architect? for working with local developers and customers, who even don't say English at all?
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Message #168207
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MCAP
if the assessors, the peers and the mentors can speak the local language then there is no problem. Inititally, everything will be in English I suppose.
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Message #168273
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Wrong
[blockquote]That's just a visceral reaction to anything Microsoft sponsored.[/blockquote]
I have better things to do than waste my time studying for some test, I'm already busy learning stuff that most folks wont get to learn for years, I don't need to prove I know what I'm doing I already busy doing it.
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Message #172232
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Architects Running Scared
Rest assured that if you are not a real practicing Architect that you will not make it thru this board. You will be found out a failed and the number of years you have been in IT will not help you. Knowledge and architecture principles and real project experience where you functioned as a lead architect are requirements. So RH stay home and save your money.
Allen
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