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New Web Service Specifications Released, but is it just too much
In the past month the BIMT group (BEA, IBM, Microsoft, and Tibco) have released four new web service specifications; WS-Eventing, WS-Policy, WS-Transfer, and WS-Enumeration. With the continued release of new specifications in addition to the modifications of those already released, some critics fear that the future of web services may be getting buried underneath one complex specification after another.
The web service specifications are meant to create industry standard solutions for solving some of the problems inherent with large scale Service Oriented Architectures. In particular the most recent specifications address requesting list information from web services (WS-Enumeration) and providing a common set of verbs for web service interaction (WS-Transfer). But as WS-* specifications begin to stack up, how many and which specifications make sense to implement is a question that is becoming increasingly difficult to answer.
Critics of the WS-* specifications claim that the standards are "opaque and insanely complex". Tim Bray of Sun posted a fairly hilarious blog that suggests starting a "Loyal Opposition" to the WS-* specifications.
On the other hand, in a presentation at TechEd 2003, Don Box spoke about the WS-* specifications and said that with the possible exception of WS-Security and WS-Addressing, we should leave the specifications to the plumbers. Also, the WS-Policy specification was recently updated to make it much simpler to implement.
In the end, the complexity of the implementation details of these specifications *should* be wrapped into the development environments and tools similar to how WSE 2.0 implements the specifications for WS-Addressing into a relatively simple framework of SoapSender and SoapReceiver classes.
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Message #138638
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New Web Service Specifications Released, but is it just too much
My advice it to not wait but forge ahead and become successful, in a decade or so when this guys figure it all out we'll be using a new technology and they can begin to work on those specifications ...
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Message #138642
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New Web Service Specifications Released, but is it just too much
I could not imagine being required to have a deep understanding of all these specs and asked to build systems with them. The tools should hide all that complexity away and I should on be required to have a general to expert understanding of what it does and how to use it.
I'm sure this is where Microsoft is heading, not so sure about Java.
Regards,
Marlon Smith
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Message #138653
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New Web Service Specifications Released, but is it just too much
I could not imagine being required to have a deep understanding of all these specs and asked to build systems with them. The tools should hide all that complexity away and I should on be required to have a general to expert understanding of what it does and how to use it. I'm sure this is where Microsoft is heading, not so sure about Java.Regards,Marlon Smith Oh, us java guys just met last night and decided we are hanging around the specs for another 5-6 years and then launch it along a kick-ass emacs plugin which has advanced features like autocompletion for XML endtags.
;)
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Message #138661
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New Web Service Specifications Released, but is it just too much
In the end, the complexity of the implementation details of these specifications *should* be wrapped into the development environments and tools similar to how WSE 2.0 implements the specifications for WS-Addressing into a relatively simple framework of SoapSender and SoapReceiver classes. Seems like there are some smart people thinking about the problem before jumping to a solution.
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Message #138753
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New Web Service Specifications Released, but is it just too much
I could not imagine being required to have a deep understanding of all these specs and asked to build systems with them. The tools should hide all that complexity away and I should on be required to have a general to expert understanding of what it does and how to use it. I'm sure this is where Microsoft is heading, not so sure about Java.Regards,Marlon Smith I could not imagine NOT having a deep understanding of all these specs if I want to build software whose implications I will understand when I'm done, just as I could not imagine NOT having a deep understanding of the CLR so I can know how to build software better on it, or NOT having a deep understanding of the JVM when building software on it, or....
In the end, while the WS-* stack may reach a point where implementations could potentially hide some of the complexity, as with all things middleware, you'll have to know something about all of these, if for no other reason than because you'll need to be able to look at wire packets going across and know whether or not they're correct/what-I-want.
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Message #138777
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New Web Service Specifications Released, but is it just too much
Where should developers place there area of concentration in order to keep up?
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Message #138829
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New Web Service Specifications Released, but is it just too much
There are 4 things.
The Spec.
Pure Implementation.
Framework around it.
End user(s).
Take CORBA. And Take BEA.
Spec --- OMG CORBA
Implementation --- M3 later Weblogic Enterprise.
Framework --- BEA's Keep it simple for developers work.
End user --- application framework & application developer.
Take Webservices And Take BEA, Microsoft and other.
Same hierarchy of people and technology applies.
Spec --- BIMT
Implementation --- WSE 2.0 from MS and SOA from BEA and others
Framework --- Microsoft is leader and it still has ways to go to simplify.
End user --- you and me --- simple guys.. need to wait.
Thats all..
Mehul.
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Message #138846
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New Web Service Specifications Released, but is it just too much
I could not imagine being required to have a deep understanding of all these specs and asked to build systems with them. The tools should hide all that complexity away and I should on be required to have a general to expert understanding of what it does and how to use it. I'm sure this is where Microsoft is heading, not so sure about Java.Regards,Marlon Smith I could not imagine NOT having a deep understanding of all these specs if I want to build software whose implications I will understand when I'm done, just as I could not imagine NOT having a deep understanding of the CLR so I can know how to build software better on it, or NOT having a deep understanding of the JVM when building software on it, or....In the end, while the WS-* stack may reach a point where implementations could potentially hide some of the complexity, as with all things middleware, you'll have to know something about all of these, if for no other reason than because you'll need to be able to look at wire packets going across and know whether or not they're correct/what-I-want.
Agreed, but is the WS-* stack too much for the common developer, absolutely. It is the job of the senior developer and architects to deeply understand the all the WS-* stack implementations.
My wife is able to write a descent .Net WinForms application, did I have to educate on windows internals or HWnds, no. Why, because Visual Studio takes care of that for me, it hides all the internals so she does not have to deal with it. Now can I expect her to write a multi-threaded WinForms application that communicates asynchronously with external services, no, but Visual Studio 2005 could change that.
Maybe the question should be "New Web Service Specifications Released, but is it just too much for the average developer".
As architects and senior software developers no it’s not too much, that is our job to digest this stuff and build frameworks and best practices to make this stuff approachable.
Then again too much compared to what?
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