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Yukon, Whidbey to slip into 2005
In an effort to "better focus on quality", Microsoft announced yesterday that the next-generation SQL Server (code-named Yukon) and .NET (code-named Whidbey) will not ship until 2005, so as to allow for an extra round of beta-testing before release. Both had been planned for "the second half of 2004".
Of particular interest is that this will mean that customers who'd bought Microsoft's two- to three-year window license window (which would include a free upgrade when it came out) will now have to buy new licenses for the new versions of the product. Tongues are wagging as a result.
Yukon was originally scheduled to ship in 2003.
Read the InfoWorld article on this story, the ZDNet story, and the analysis by Mary Jo Foley.
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Message #113770
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Yukon, Whidbey to slip into 2005
I kind of expected this to happen and if it makes a difference in quality I would rather wait as well.
However, I do like the names they decided to go with....Visual Studio 2005 and SqlServer 2005....for a moment there i thought they were going to be one of those names that's tough to remember.....you know like Whidbey or Yukon maybe ;)
-Mathew Nolton
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Message #113774
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Yukon, Whidbey to slip into 2005
Increased quality is good, but it is a pity a shifted timeline was the result.
I just hope that the public beta program gets underway shortly so people can start using these great technologies in their applications.
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Message #113818
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Yukon, Whidbey to slip into 2005
It is a pity. I was hoping to start using generics in a production environment. For example, creating strongly typed collections via a template/generics definition is sorely needed right now.
-Mathew Nolton
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Message #113828
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Generics support - the pity is...
Mathew,
What's even more the pity is that MS and the C# folks have been hyping the onset of Generics support for quite awhile, and yet it looks like J2SE 1.5 is going to beat them to the punch by a good margin.
To me this represents the danger of tightly-coupling (to abuse an architecure term :-) the development framework with the IDE release. Sure they are separate and separately available, but Microsoft has yet to release them independent of one another (i.e., production Framework SDK before corresponding Visual Studio .NET version is ready).
Mike
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Message #113830
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Generics support - the pity is...
The release of the 2 seem to coincide. Although once released you can get each one independently. I imagine the reason for it is to prevent the competition beating them to the punch with the release of an IDE that does support the framework before them...IMO
-Mathew Nolton
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Message #113852
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Generics support - the pity is...
I see what you're saying, but for an IDE competitor to even do that, they'd have to license the Framework to that vendor first. This was how Borland was able to do C# Builder in the first place.
AFAIK - For Microsoft to release the Framework SDK ahead of the VS .NET development environment and still mitigate the risk you describe, all they'd have to do is tie the vendor licensing for IDE work to specific versions (which I suspect they already do).
At the crux of the issue is that Microsoft offerings more and more are becoming tightly-bound to one another, and it creates the domino effect observed here and described by Mary Jo Foley in her editorial (which was quite good at pointing out the REAL impact of these slips).
I find it particularly ironic that Microsoft is playing so strongly in the loose-coupling, message-based framework of architecture today (see Shadowfax, Indigo, .NET in general, etc) and yet seems to be slipping more and more deeply into a monolithic platform stance where many applications and services have overlapping critical paths for development and release.
Mike
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Message #113862
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Generics support - the pity is...
I find it particularly ironic that Microsoft is playing so strongly in the loose-coupling, message-based framework of architecture today (see Shadowfax, Indigo, .NET in general, etc) and yet seems to be slipping more and more deeply into a monolithic platform stance where many applications and services have overlapping critical paths for development and release.
Mike
It is exactly this double-play that drives companies to Java, or that makes companies using Java so afraid or switching to .Net. No matter how "open" MS gets, there will always be some kind of string attached, being it some product, licensing agreement, upgrade path, etc. It may be the best framework ever, but there will always be a "but..."
Henrique Steckelberg
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Message #113864
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Generics support - the pity is...
I am really amazed by you guys sometimes. Whidbey has nothing to do with generics. The generic support for c# has been there for quite some time. Whidbey is more of a product release strategy by MS that is independent of c#/generic. In addition, what is the point if jdk1.5 is out in beta now. By the time jdk1.5 is realeased and all the vendors come up to spec in terms of supporting the features in jdk1.5 that will be some where in 2007. My point being is that by 2005 I will be using c#/generics.
-M
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Message #113879
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Generics support - the pity is...
"Whidbey has nothing to do with generics. "
No, but C# 2.0 does and that is only available when Whidbey is.
"The generic support for c# has been there for quite some time."
Really? Where is that? This is not meant to be sarcastic; if it's available in some other form it's news to me.
"Whidbey is more of a product release strategy by MS that is independent of c#/generic."
True, the original discussion was centered on the delay of Whidbey. The mention of generics just got thrown out as a specific feature of the new release but is really insignificant in the grander scheme of things.
"In addition, what is the point if jdk1.5 is out in beta now. By the time jdk1.5 is realeased and all the vendors come up to spec in terms of supporting the features in jdk1.5 that will be some where in 2007."
There are reverse compilation efforts right now to fold 1.5 code (specifically generics) back into 1.4 compilers. But really so what? I seriously doubt anyone is making platform decisions based on generics support.
"My point being is that by 2005 I will be using c#/generics."
I thought it was supported right now. Why wait? ;-) (Just kidding, I couldn't resist.)
My posts were not meant to fan the Java vs. C# flames, but I stand by my comments on Microsoft's product strategy becoming more and more monolithic as shown by all this. And I am not a Java Community plant; I have been heavily involved with .NET since its inception. That does not preclude me from calling a spade a spade.
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Message #113888
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Generics support - the pity is...
I too am interested in where you can get a generally available release of .Net that supports generics. I have the PDC bits where there is support for it but nothing i would use for a production system.
-Mathew Nolton
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Message #113900
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Yukon, Whidbey to slip into 2005
"Yukon was originally scheduled to ship in 2003."
Quite interesting to see that an extra round of testing is gonna take 2 years!!!
It for sure smells to somethig else...
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