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Messages: 56
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Welcome to TheServerSide.NET: Your Enterprise .NET Community
The Middleware Company today announced the launch of TheSeverSide.NET, Your Enterprise .NET Community. In his opening letter, TSS.NET Editor-In-Chief Ted Neward talks about his vision for TheServerSide.NET, his commitments to the community for the future, and why TheServerSide.NET is important to the .NET community as a whole.
Read Welcome to TSS.NET
And be sure to read our launch press release for more details about TSS.NET. Also, check out all the other sites that have written articles about our launch:
Developers getting information boosts for Java, .Net (infoworld)
The Middleware Company Launches .Net Online Community (CRN)
In the meantime, take a tour of some of the excellent and unique content we have prepared for you as part of our site launch, including:
Exclusive tech talks with Indigo lead Don Box and Whidbey lead Scott Guthrie.
A real world .NET project case study of a large scale financial application.
TheServerSide.NET-only public-review chapters from the patterns and practices guide on Improving .NET Application Performance and Scalability.
Exclusive and original articles on Unit Testing in .NET, SOA and the new information architecture, how to build skinning into your ASP applications right now, and more.
Of course, we'll be updating each of these content items regularly, and providing you with DAILY enterprise .NET news. So feel free to register and sign up for the newsletter if you want to be notified of new content that matters to you as it gets added.
Feel free to give us any feedback you like here. In the meantime, welcome to TheServerSide.NET!
Sincerely,
Ted Neward & TheServerSide Team
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Message #106719
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Welcome to TheServerSide.NET: Your Enterprise .NET Community
Great Going. The only thing I did not like is re-registering on this site.
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Message #106722
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Reason for the Re-Registration
Hi BK-
Thanks for your interest in TheServerSide.NET. I can understand your concerns about having to re-register on TSS.NET when you already have an ID with TSS.com.
We do have single sign-on between the two communities, so your registration here was simplified.
The need for an acknowledgement of your registration on this community is outlined in our privacy policy. TSS.NET has separate newsletters and alerts and the registration update is needed to allow you to opt-in or opt-out of those notifications.
The process for linking your TSS.com ID to TSS.NET was simplified and fewer steps than creating a new registration.
Thanks for your feedback and we hope you enjoy it.
Tyler Jewell
The Middleware Company
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Message #106735
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Reason for the Re-Registration
I don't know where else to post this, so I will do it here. I am not able to view the tech talk chat transcripts properly. I mean, the transcript window doesn't sport a scroll bar! As a result I can only see about a couple of questions. WMP is currently not set up at my office PC and I am _dying_ to read the interviews :-(
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Message #106739
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RSS feed fails to validate with Newzcrawler
Hi,
The RSS feed () fails to validate with NewzCrawler v1.6 - Invalid XML
Error:
Invalid xml declaration.
Line: 3
<?xml version="1.0"?>
Validate this feed!
I don't think it likes the two blank lines before the XML declaration.
Felix.
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Message #106758
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serious bug
Please correct this bug. That profile is not mine and i can modify it without any restriction...
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Message #106768
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excellent idea!
Thank you for thinking of this.
I am a J2EE developer that switched to .NET for some months and I REALLY missed a website like theserverside.com for .NET
Dan
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Message #106794
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Coverage on the client side as well?
It is great to see a .NET version of TSS! But .NET is much more than just ASP.NET. I hope that we will see more coverage on the "smart client" side (Longhorn, Office and .NET Compact Framework) as well, especially the client side technology that helps develop Web services (or just server) driven applications!
Michael Yuan
The Windows Mobile Development Blog
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Message #106795
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Welcome to TheServerSide.NET: Your Enterprise .NET Community
Can we please change the font?
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Message #106797
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Reason for the Re-Registration
Thanks for reply Tyler. From J2EE to .Net it should be a big Jump for you. Almost all .net related websites I have seen are code related sites. But this kind of site related to enterprise .net architecture is really good.
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Message #106799
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Error in Safari and IE 5.2 for Mac
1)I am very excited about this new Enterprise .NET Community.
2)I am happy to be able to post during the first day of launch.
With these things put aside,
3) In Safari I can't post (the post reply link doesn't appear)
4( and in IE 5.2 for Mac the window size is messed up, i have to scroll to the right till i can see the post reply link.
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Message #106809
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"Post Rely" does not work on Mac Safari
OK, I know this is a .NET site and Mac is probably not a high priority. But the "post reply" button does not work with Mac Safari browser.
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Message #106815
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More details?
> OK, I know this is a .NET site and Mac is probably not a high priority. But the "post reply" button does not work with Mac Safari browser.
Michael--
Can you offer up more details? What do you get when you click the link--no action, a malformed page, a 404, ...?
Ted Neward
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Message #106818
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More details?
Yes, in Safari, the "Post Reply" link does not appear at all. In fact, none of the text on the head bar appears. I tried to click around on the bar in case there is a hidden link -- but nothing happens. Here is a screenshot.
cheers
Michael
[Blog]
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Message #106821
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I am Michael, not Eric ;)
My last post showed up as from "Eric Preston". But I am really Michael Yuan. I am using IE 6.0 SP1 on Win XP Pro. I guess there are a few bugs you need to work on tonight! :)
Michael
[Blog]
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Message #106857
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Why not Lucene?
Lucene is an incredible search engine that works really well for us. Lucene is not just Java, but can be and is implemented in other languages for many platforms.
What search engine do you recommend?
Thanks, Eric
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Message #106862
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More details?
> > OK, I know this is a .NET site and Mac is probably not a high priority. But the "post reply" button does not work with Mac Safari browser.
>
> Michael--
>
> Can you offer up more details? What do you get when you click the link--no action, a malformed page, a 404, ...?
>
> Ted Neward
While we are it I'd like to point out that the window displaying the chat transcripts of a techtalk does *not* sport a scroll bar when viewed from Mozilla Firebird. I posted about this earlier in this thread but found it working in IE.
Also, if I click on a Post Reply button w/o logging in, the login screen comes up promptly. But as soon as I login, the control is not taking me to the post page -- rather it puts up a page thanking me for logging in. Bad navigation?
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Message #106882
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More details?
> > While we are it I'd like to point out that the window displaying the chat transcripts of a techtalk does *not* sport a scroll bar when viewed from Mozilla Firebird. I posted about this earlier in this thread but found it working in IE.
Which version of Firebird? I'm using it right now and haven't spotted a problem yet. Can you email me a screenshot?
> > Also, if I click on a Post Reply button w/o logging in, the login screen comes up promptly. But as soon as I login, the control is not taking me to the post page -- rather it puts up a page thanking me for logging in. Bad navigation?
Probably just the accidental reuse of the same thank-you page.
Ted
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Message #106898
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More details?
> > Which version of Firebird? I'm using it right now and haven't spotted a problem yet. Can you email me a screenshot?
I am using FireBird 0.7. Here is what I gleaned from Help->About
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 Firebird/0.7
By screen shot, did you want a private copy mailed to you? Anyway here is what happens: If I click on the 56K or DSL link, a window appears in a non-maximized condition. The chat transcript does have a scroll bar at that time (albeit in a weird unusable way..) but as soon as I maximize the window, the scroll bar vanishes.
> > Probably just the accidental reuse of the same thank-you page.
It doesn't seem like an accident. It happened again when I wanted to write this post. When I click post reply, it asks me to login -- as soon as I login I get the thank-you page rather than the post news page.
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Message #106905
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Welcome to TheServerSide.NET: Your Enterprise .NET Community
When should we expect to see Patterns and Reviews, also I think it would be great to see an interview with Miguel de Icaza (Mono).
When are you guys going to make the sponsors of this forum less prominent?
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Message #106908
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Welcome to TheServerSide.NET: Your Enterprise .NET Community
As Smart Clients become more common place do think it would be relevant to include some client-side architecture patterns and pratices?
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Message #106910
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Coverage on the client side as well?
It is true that .NET is more than just a server-side platform. Ignoring the smart client piece (especially with Indigo coming into clients) seems an artificial limitation.
TheServerAndClientSide.Net ?
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Message #106932
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Welcome to TheServerSide.NET: Your Enterprise .NET Community
> When should we expect to see Patterns and Reviews,
Probably when we have some good patterns to post. :-)
Seriously, this was my decision, as I didn't want to do a "me, too" style Patterns section, rehashing the GOF patterns in .NET or something similar--those resources already exist. I want that section to be a discussion area for enterprise .NET patterns (if such a thing can be said to exist--patterns are supposed to be implementation-agnostic), and as of right now no such things exist. They need to stand up for themselves over a certain period of time before we can call them true "patterns". Trust me, nobody wants that part of the community more than I do.
> also I think it would be great to see an interview with Miguel de Icaza (Mono).
I'd love to; Miguel and I spoke together at .NET One 2002 in Frankfurt, and while we don't see eye-to-eye on certain topics (and frankly it's more fun when we don't), he's a well-spoken and highly intelligent guy. Miguel, if you're reading this, drop me an email. :-)
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Message #106933
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TSS.NET Client discussions
Marlon and Dino--
I am a big believer in the need for rich clients in the enterprise space. I believe that for certain applications, the browser just doesn't cut it any more. For that reason, yes, you can expect that as the rich client gains in acceptance and momentum, you will see more client-related pieces here; an article or TechTalk on ClickOnce, Microsoft's zero-touch deployment technology coming as part of Whidbey, is definitely on my editorial to-do list.
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Message #106969
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Why not Lucene?
Lucene is an open source and free search engine. Whats the licensing cost for Microsoft Indexing Service?
There is a .Net version of lucene(Lucene.net) on source forge written in C#. I think that would have been a good choice.
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Message #106982
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Why not Lucene?
I was jaut wandering why use a J2EE component like Lucene in a .NET community web site. Just that. I know lucene very well, it think it is great, and i use it.
I am a J2EE developer happy to know that a good .NET site still needs j2ee componentes.
cheers
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Message #107000
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Rich clients in the enterprise space
Ted,
Couldn't agree more, especially as grid and peer computing models and architectures gain more acceptance, prominence and support. Doing anything in the browser has, in my opinion, been a necessary evil for years. "Primitive" scripting (my opinion only), worrying about browser flavors, breaking changes to DOMs and so forth completely negated the "cross-platform" ease of deployment that the web interface was supposed to offer.
I think the discussion of the rich client and its applications in the enterprise space will be an interesting discussion to see.
Mike
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Message #107033
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What is unique about TheServerSide.Net?
How will you go head-to-head with GotDotNet, ASP.net and MSDN sites? By focusing on server-side issues? Well, the M$FT toolkit is not known to be strong on the server side (where J2EE rules), and I doubt many pure M$FT developers pay much attention to component-based development or use design patterns.
Having said the above, I wish you guys the best of luck in your new endeavor.
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Message #107054
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What is unique about TheServerSide.Net?
MSDN really isn't a competitor--they're a point of knowledge dissemination, as TSS.NET is, yes, but they're not focused nearly as much on building a community, nor are they exclusively focused on enterprise issues as we are. The same is true of GotDotNet.
The ASP.NET site is specific to ASP.NET, and although ASP.NET certainly figures prominently in enterprise .NET systems, it's not the sum total of enterprise .NET solutions. There's room for discussions on other topics, like rich WinForms clients and such.
.NET currently runs in half of the Fortune 100 companies. Even though your anecdotal evidence might suggest that it's not in widespread use, mine as a speaker and instructor contradicts that, as does a lot of marketing studies (which, of course, you always have to take with a large pile of salt).
And as to .NET developers not paying attention to component-based development or design patterns, that's a pretty serious allegation and bad generalization. There are just as many J2EE developers who fall into that camp as there are .NET developers....
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Message #107079
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What is unique about TheServerSide.Net?
>I doubt many pure M$FT developers pay much attention to component-based development or use design patterns.
Only the senior .Net developers I know and work with seemed to be familiar with patterns, but more and more "pure M$FT developers" (whatever that means?) are warming to patterns.
CBD has always been a foundation of Windows DNA; back in the mid-90s CBD is what made the MS ISV component market so vibrant. MTS required that the developer expose their functionality as a well defined interface, even though VB was not OO language it leant itself well to component orientation.
As I read the above statement I became a little defensive, because I love CBD, patterns (particularly MVC, Front Controller, Intercepting Filter and OR), but service based development has become my latest favorite.
Secondly I am getting tired of this "I am a Java developer so I am superior" posture (some) java develops have, as if nothing of value ever existed before java. You guys seem to forget about the technologies that provided java a foundation to stand on and what a piece of crap java was when it was first released.
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Message #107108
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Why not Lucene?
The level of ignorance about Microsoft products among Microsoft critics never fails to amaze me. Microsoft Indexing Service is a part of Windows and there is no separate licensing required. I don't see why you need to reinvent the wheel everytime, when the underlying platform already provides a better solution.
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Message #107128
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Why not Lucene?
"...when the underlying platform already provides a better solution"--> So, can I conclude from your posting you have previous experience with Lucene? Would you mind to post some comparative information as to let us decide which one is the best?? (anyways, there is no best solution in IT)
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Message #107129
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Why not Lucene?
"...when the underlying platform already provides a better solution"--> So, can I conclude from your posting you have previous experience with Lucene? Would you mind to post some comparative information as to let us decide which one is the best?? (anyways, there is no best solution in IT)
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Message #107136
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What is unique about TheServerSide.Net?
"pure M$FT developers" (whatever that means?)
My definition - someone started with early versions of VB (3, 4) and VBA before the mid '90s, worked on ASP and Windows DNA in the late '90s, and moved on to .NET in the 21st century. Someone who never built an app on platforms other than Windows. By the way, I will refrain from using "M$FT" in this site :-). I truly worship the revenue and profit generation prowess of Microsoft.
back in the mid-90s CBD is what made the MS ISV component market so vibrant.
You are talking about GUI control widgets. I am talking about server-side components and services.
MTS required that the developer expose their functionality as a well defined interface, even though VB was not OO language it leant itself well to component orientation.
I am sure J2EE learned some lessons from MTS. However, in your experience, what percentage of Windows DNA developer ever coded MTS components? I will say < 10%.
Secondly I am getting tired of this "I am a Java developer so I am superior" posture (some) java develops have, as if nothing of value ever existed before java. You guys seem to forget about the technologies that provided java a foundation to stand on and what a piece of crap java was when it was first released.
No intention what-so-ever to bash .NET or imply MSFT developers are inferior to Java developers. Merely trying to point out that MSFT developers who come from a VB background tend not to be as familiar with design-patterns as their C++ counterparts.
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Message #107139
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What is unique about TheServerSide.Net?
MSDN really isn't a competitor--they're a point of knowledge dissemination, as TSS.NET is, yes, but they're not focused nearly as much on building a community, nor are they exclusively focused on enterprise issues as we are. The same is true of GotDotNet.
In order for a community to thrive you need a core group of people who are not afraid of voicing their opinions and sometimes playing the role of devil's advocate. There are a bunch of them at TSS.com. For .Net, I wish folks from Developmentor will be as independently minded as can be and not mere applauders to whatever comes out of Redmond.
.NET currently runs in half of the Fortune 100 companies. Even though your anecdotal evidence might suggest that it's not in widespread use, mine as a speaker and instructor contradicts that, as does a lot of marketing studies (which, of course, you always have to take with a large pile of salt).
No doubt .NET and its predecessor has the numbers in terms of total apps deployed. As for enterprise-level apps runnning some of the largest transaction systems (banks and telco's), I venture to say J2EE rules. There is no need to get into debat for that. The fact is J2EE and .Net will co-exist and inter-operate for a long long time.
And as to .NET developers not paying attention to component-based development or design patterns, that's a pretty serious allegation and bad generalization. There are just as many J2EE developers who fall into that camp as there are .NET developers....
OK. We are even now :-). I hope TSS.net will raise the awareness of good coding practices, like TSS.com has done for the J2EE community.
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Message #107141
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What is unique about TheServerSide.Net?
First I want to thank for clarifying you statements, I am glad to see the tone of your statements is not who you are.
Second, not sure about the percentage of MS developers that have developed components for MTS/COM+. MS recommends staying away from using COM+, unless you really need distributed transactions, COM+ is very heavy handed technology.
I've seen a lot of MTS/COM+ abuse, with developers using it just to get the experience and because of its ease of use, but it comes with a heavy performance price.
Transactions on the .Net platform in the Whidbey-Longhorn timeframe get much better. I you want to learn more visit: http://microsoft.sitestream.com/PDC2003/WSV/WSV302_files/Default.htm
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Message #107156
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What is unique about TheServerSide.Net?
> > For .Net, I wish folks from Developmentor will be as independently minded as can be and not mere applauders to whatever comes out of Redmond.
Trust me, DevelopMentor instructors do not parrot the party line on anything, much less software coming out of Redmond. If it sucks, a DevelopMentor guy will tell you, I can promise you that. :-)
> > No doubt .NET and its predecessor has the numbers in terms of total apps deployed. As for enterprise-level apps runnning some of the largest transaction systems (banks and telco's), I venture to say J2EE rules. There is no need to get into debat for that. The fact is J2EE and .Net will co-exist and inter-operate for a long long time.
And here we agree on both points: J2EE definitely has the upper hand on many server-side deployments, and both of them are going to have to play nicely together on the playground for the forseeable future.
> > OK. We are even now :-). I hope TSS.net will raise the awareness of good coding practices, like TSS.com has done for the J2EE community.
I hope so, too. :-)
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Message #107167
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Why not Lucene?
What kind of experience do you have in Lucene. If you know squat about lucene it is time for you to learn something new and come out of the box. If you do know can you give some comparison between microsoft Index server and lucene.
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Message #107172
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Why not Lucene?
The short answer is we run multiple community sites and already had search implemented with Lucene for our other sites. To avoid reinventing the wheel we leveraged our existing search implementation for the .NET site. Reusable code is a wonderful thing. Much of our content is in the database, and we've built a search mechanism with Lucene that indexes that data as well as our articles, studies, etc., and it works very well and is very fast. Lucene is about an index format. Once the index is built, searching and displaying the results is trivial. -- Eric
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Message #107235
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Why not Lucene?
I did not mean to step on anyone's toes.
I haven't used Lucene because I never felt the need to. Microsoft Indexing Server seems to do everything that Lucene does and more (like index non-text files). Lucene does not handle PDFs and MS Office files (see the FAQ on the Lucene site) unless you specifically build parsers for such document types (which I have no intention of doing).
I guess for a site like TSS which has only text/html, Lucene is ok. Its just that I don't see the point of using something else when the platform already has the facility.
In TSS's case, since the site is essentially a port of the Java site, I guess the folks who built it found it easier to use the same search API they have used for the other site. Nothing wrong with that :-)
Just my 2 cents.
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Message #107258
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What is unique about TheServerSide.Net?
How will you go head-to-head with GotDotNet, ASP.net and MSDN sites?
The problem with MSDN is that it uses a push mechanism without any form of discussion or feedback. The server side is, besides publishing articles, a developer the option to discuss the contents of the articles. Discussing technology is, in my opinion, the best way to learn about new ideas and help you to think about it in a different way.
The GotDotNet site is only used for downloading not interacting with each other. Take a look at the discussions, in most cases questions without answers.
I am not familiar with the ASP.Net site but a quick peak showed me that there is no discussion possible.
A lot of information about .NET is focused on front-ends (especially ASP.Net). The only way to develop good software is a descent design for both UI, middle-tier and back-end. The ?java-version? of TheServerside focuses on all parts of software development. I hope this will be the same for the .Net version of the serverside.
By focusing on server-side issues? Well, the M$FT toolkit is not known to be strong on the server side (where J2EE rules), and I doubt many pure M$FT developers pay much attention to component-based development or use design patterns.
Microsoft has a different approach on server-side development; I do not want to start a discussion about the good and bad about their approach.
Although J2EE is an accepted standard, many projects are developed without any J2EE component but with open source products with a similar or different approach. (Maybe there are too many approaches but that?s a different discussion)
In my humble opinion this is the big difference between java-community and the .net-community. For reasons, I do not understand, there is no openness in the .NET-community. I am sure people are building great components (not only UI) but are keeping it for them self. Maybe this site will stimulate the sharing of ideas and code to improve the acceptance of .Net on the server-side of development. If Microsoft is not delivering the right patterns and code maybe the developers using the technology can build a foundation for great server-side components.
I hope .net developers will start thinking about developing great open-source components.
I am a .Net and Java developer that learned a lot from the discussions on TheServerSide.com and from now on I hope the time spent reading interesting discussions will double.
One general remark, please do not discuss in a format like ?java/.net is better? let?s keep an open mind, both technologies can coexist and even work together. If you enjoy discussions like that please visit TheServerSide.com every post with the word Microsoft or M$FT (M$FT it is no longer funny, just annoying) in it generates a lot of posts that should be marked as noisy.
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Message #107289
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What is unique about TheServerSide.Net?
Well said, in most of my face-to-face discussions with new .Net developers, they seem unaware of the benefits of abstraction and designing for extensibility and "plug-in".
IMHO most patterns are suitable for framework development and most new .Net developers who build LOB applications see little need for abstraction and extensibility.
Ted, maybe you should take some surveys to better understand .Net developers, this could help drive content and discussion.
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Message #107354
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What is unique about TheServerSide.Net?
in most of my face-to-face discussions with new .Net developers, they seem unaware of the benefits of abstraction and designing for extensibility and "plug-in".
That's what I was trying to get at in my earliest posts. Maybe I did not do a very good job expressing myself :-(.
"New .Net developers", including those possessing extensive but pure VB background, when they move into a fully OO environment, tend not to be aware of design patterns or consider them that significant. To make matters worse, up till now, all sample code you get from MSDN down to the other 2 dozen .Net sites all use very little design patterns, if any at all (I wouldn't call JavaBean style VB/C# classes or ASP.Net code-behind classes components in the true sense). PetShop 3 started to change that, and MSDN now has an architect/patterns section, all welcome changes. But I am not sure how many .Net developers truly understand this "new" paradigm in the MSFT technology world.
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Message #107411
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What is unique about TheServerSide.Net?
quite interesting request since there is troll call Rolf that use to post non sense in theserverside.com and declares himself as a TRUE Programmer and shouts: VIVA! to every move Microsoft does... and btw, he does not anything about session management...
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Message #107417
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Found a new serious forum?
I hope that you made the right choice joining this forum "mmm... time to switch to a more serious forum I think... " :)
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Message #107568
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What is unique about TheServerSide.Net?
>Are you saying that NEW Java developers are born with that knowledge?
No, I am sure that the issue exist on both sides. I have been an MS developer for 7 years (VC++, VB, C#), I to had to make the transition to patterns also.
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Message #107584
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Fixed Post/Reply, etc.
I have fixed the navigation problem where if you try to post or reply but aren't logged in it takes you to the login page. If you successfully login it now takes you back to where you were trying to go in the first place. -- Eric
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Message #108257
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Legible typeface
I'm very exited about the launch of your community site. But Marlon is right: the font is ugly. A more legible typeface would enhance the overall appearance - at least for me.
Maybe you should include skinning
support ?
;-)
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