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Eclipse vs. Visual Studio at EclipseCon 2006
Speaking at EclipseCon 2006, Java developer and independent consultant Madhu Siddalingaiah compared Microsoft's Visual Studio IDE to the open source development environment of Eclipse.
While Siddalingaiah credited VS as being a great IDE for beginners, he said that Visual Studio has remained far too traditional when compared with Eclipse's continuous development process.
Read more at http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2006/3/23/3317.
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Message #205170
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Eclipse vs. Visual Studio at EclipseCon 2006
Not the best place to look for a comprehensive comparative study between eclipse and vs IMO
;-)
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Message #205221
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Eclipse vs. Visual Studio at EclipseCon 2006
Agreed Eclipse people have their agenda. And to say Visual Studio is for starters only, disingenuous.
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Message #205222
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Eclipse vs. Visual Studio at EclipseCon 2006
Ditto.
Plus, where is the rich Eclipse support for asp.net ?
Funny, for 'beginners' - gee, can we say 'snobbish' ?
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Message #205310
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Eclipse vs. Visual Studio at EclipseCon 2006
Ditto.Plus, where is the rich Eclipse support for asp.net ?Funny, for 'beginners' - gee, can we say 'snobbish' ?
You guys expected something different? Mostly all the bean counters are snobs.
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Message #205343
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Not for begginers
VS 2005 is not for beginners, its easy to learn for beginners,but after you inmerse your self in more difficult task you have to resolve more complex problems and not easy, and it does not depend on vs 2005.
The .net framework 2.0 is the one who solves the problems for us with the new classes like gridview and so on, and then vs 2005 takes those classes and lets us set up them easily.
Vs 2005 is for microsoft developers and we only develop for microsoft plataforms because they are the best.
The compiler is very fast and we have like 2gbs of documentation, so this guy must hate MSFT because we produce a lot more.
We have also refactoring a lot more than eclipse, so let me say my company develops in java and .net and the .net applications finish like 60% faster than java applications.
Vs 2005 debuggers are better than others, I can even debug my executables processes in assembly.
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Message #205375
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Not for begginers
Vs 2005 is for microsoft developers and we only develop for microsoft plataforms because they are the best.
I work for banks and am not bias against any language. I can tell you that there is almost NO space for Microsoft in the banking sector. It is IBM and Sun's world.
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Message #205423
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Fast?
VS2005's compiler is reasonably quick.
Eclipse's compiler is so fast that you may not notice that it has compiled anything.
Refactoring support in Eclipse is vastly superior to refactoring in VS2005.
VS2005's debugger is vastly better than Eclipse, and the ASP.Net support is better than anything Eclipse has to offer.
See, there's truth to both sides. :)
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Message #205478
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Not for begginers
Vs 2005 is for microsoft developers and we only develop for microsoft plataforms because they are the best. I work for banks and am not bias against any language. I can tell you that there is almost NO space for Microsoft in the banking sector. It is IBM and Sun's world.
LOL. The largest bank in Australia is building all the new applications on .NET (started a year and half ago)!
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Message #205479
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Not for begginers
and all the Internet banking of Australia's No4 bank is still based on ASP classic/COM+/Win2000.
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Message #205513
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Not for begginers
"Vs 2005 is for microsoft developers and we only develop for microsoft plataforms because they are the best."
ROFL!
"we have like 2gbs of documentation, so this guy must hate MSFT because we produce a lot more."
ROFLCOPTER!
"We have also refactoring a lot more than eclipse, so let me say my company develops in java and .net and the .net applications finish like 60% faster than java applications."
LOLLERSKATES!
Your company should fire its Java developers (and probably its .Net developers, too). Give me an example of how refactoring support in Visual Studio is superior (I assume that's what "more" means) to Eclipse.
Jim
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Message #205569
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Not for begginers
Java/Websphere/MQ/Oracle(or DB2) is the standard architecture for banks in Hong Kong.
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Message #205574
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Not for begginers
Java/Websphere/MQ/Oracle(or DB2) is the standard architecture for banks in Hong Kong.
Even WAS will not cope with 20,000 bank tellers concurrently, with dynamic Web pages.
Microsoft solved the problem with no touch deployment of WinForm in .NET 1.1, enhanced with ClickOnce in .NET 2.0. There is catch though. The WinForm deployed this way can only make requests to Web services on a .NET backend.
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Message #205682
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Not for begginers
Java/Websphere/MQ/Oracle(or DB2) is the standard architecture for banks in Hong Kong. Even WAS will not cope with 20,000 bank tellers concurrently, with dynamic Web pages.Microsoft solved the problem with no touch deployment of WinForm in .NET 1.1, enhanced with ClickOnce in .NET 2.0. There is catch though. The WinForm deployed this way can only make requests to Web services on a .NET backend.
I am *NOT* saying the .NET platform cannot handle high-volumn applications. I have developed an ERP for an enterprise with .NET before, it's fine. What I am saying here is banking sector much prefer Java/J2EE than .NET.
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Message #205687
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Not for begginers
Developing DHTML/Web Browser based UI for enterprise applications will run out of steam sooner or later.
In the early Cobol/RPG/C days, it was green screen/timesharing.
Then client/server.
Then browser based UI. J2EE is a clear winner in this era, compared to ASP/COM+ and other alternatives.
The next wave will be no-touch deployed WinForm and/or WPF XAML. Though DHTML will stay popular for Internet applications.
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Message #205810
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Work with both produkts on daily basis
I work with both on daily basis. VS startup time is faster than eclipse, wich is a good thing.
Eclipse completing and refactoring is much better than VS. I also don't like the way VS work with solutions and projects. Eclipses workspace model is much more flexiple than VS.
But debuging in VS is much better.
Both are good and very big products, but I prefer eclipse.
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Message #206330
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My employer is attempting to eliminate .Net
Though I use both Eclipse and Visual Studio, VS is becoming less relevant as any use of .Net needs to be justified in a lengthy process. One of the biggest banks in the US has decided that it does not want to use .Net even on the front end other than for legacy apps, while a number of investment banks only allow it on the front end. Microsoft has done a poor job of selling their platform to enterprise developers in large financial institutions, but especially architects in those banks. What does not help is that while Visual Studio has been improved a great deal, the improvements are evolutionary and not as well suited for object oriented development with coding in a class browser and refactoring, not to mention VS's frequent freezing and crashing when debugging multi-threaded applications.
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Message #206475
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Not for begginers
Vs 2005 is for microsoft developers and we only develop for microsoft plataforms because they are the best. I work for banks and am not bias against any language. I can tell you that there is almost NO space for Microsoft in the banking sector. It is IBM and Sun's world.
LOL. The largest bank in Australia is building all the new applications on .NET (started a year and half ago)!
TRUE...but What sort of applications? ;-)
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Message #206476
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Not for begginers
and all the Internet banking of Australia's No4 bank is still based on ASP classic/COM+/Win2000.
FALSE.
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Message #206479
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Not for begginers
Than that bank has a short life ahead of itself. I will most likely use .NET 1.1 in stead of .NET 2.0. And we discovered a nice bug in .NET 1.1 that causes mixups in user sessions on ASP.NET. A bug that Microsoft acknowledges but will not fix.
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Message #206511
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...
I'm not sure how much weight it should hold when someone says "X institution has decided Y technology isn't going to be used", etc.. Think about how often these types of decisions are made politically or by people who aren't qualified to make them. I've seen shops turned upsidedown, technologically speaking all because someone wanted to exercise their newfound power, or a new manager coming in with bias, etc. There are always seemingly sound reasons behind it but I'm not sure it can be used to prop up a particular platform. I'm sure some of you are aware of situations where SUN/IBM/MS will help fund a change, place consultants, etc. Most decisions like this seem to be made to make the choice-maker look good. I wonder if looking at the open-source movement in 10 years is a better way to judge. Why 10 years? Well, that'll give .NET some time to develop a user base like java/perl/php/etc has. Who knows.. I don't. What I do know is that decisions are rarely made in the biz world based on actual merit.
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Message #206824
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.Net in the Banking Sector
Really? Please take a look on chase.com ...LOL.
I would LOL as well, except the Chase does not have the same architectural board as JPMorgan, the investment bank
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Message #206852
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Chase.com
I looked at chase.com. It looks like a java site to me. Most of the links point to a jsp page.
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Message #206950
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.NET not in Finance -- You must live on Mars
You must live on Pluto, or living in the crystal palace of most large banks.
I work with more progressive (Profitable) banks and they are most definitely using .NET technology.
Examples:
Barclays Capital is almost entire .NET.
Royal Bank of Scotland is almost entirely .NET
So next time you make such a comment, please stop talking out your ass.
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Message #207788
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NOT AGAIN!!!
I thought this was supposed to be an Eclipse vs VS.NET debate, but like every other debate on theserverside .net or .com it always degenerates to a .NET vs Java issue.
IMHO I believe both IDEs are great and solve different problems in different domains, solve the same problem(s) i different and same ways and at the end of the day the users are more productive ... bottomline. same goes for both platforms. Banks, Financial Institutions, Airlines etc decide platforms to use based on a lot of parameters that goes beyond the trivial issues we raise in these forums.
lets involve in more objective discussions and let the businesses fight their wars .
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Message #225126
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We shouldnt even compare them
Let me tell you that I was and still is a avid Java fan and programmer but after working with Java and the open source world for more than a decade I have come to a conclusion that MSFT (Microsoft) has the best and feature rich product and no body can surpass them.
I work for a banking software company. Though most of the core banking doesnt work on Microsoft technologies I have seen our Java projects are too slow to develop and manage. Whereas C# project almost finish on time or ahead of time. Java and the entire J2EE space is framgmented, torn, unstable from development perspective and to be honest I have concluded that only RICH clients development platform.
Those who are sensible to money, value for money , ease of development, mentainability .NET and Microsoft is the best solution. If somebody wants to argue on this I can give them project by project and feature by feature details of how equivalent functionalities on .NET and Java have progressed and performed.
I feel that Eclipse is a Boeing assembled by immature teenagers while Microsoft Visual Studio is surely worth AN-225
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Message #225642
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Re: We shouldnt even compare them
Yes.
Now the market is shared between J2EE & .NET as almost 50:50. Im an Architect with one of the top IT Services company in India and we get projects from various clients in Banking, Insurance, Finance, Retail, Utilities, Telecom, etc. Almost all of them are having applications in both the technologies. To name few, CapitalOne, JPMorgan Chase, UBS, Verizon, Target, Farmers, etc. So, i dont think we people now think about how we can work hand in hand to communicate from one technology to the other and learn from the other technologies mistakes.
Windows based applications, always MS scores well. I include the Gaming industry also as Windows based development. No one will dare to think of dev. a Game of current genere in Java. But, at the sametime in Mobile, Java is the clear winner till now.
Only in Web the competition is there.
ASP.NET was inspired from JSP Tag Libraries. Sun didnt gave importance to it initially. Now they dont care of Java itself, its a different story. Then Sun realised and started initiative of Java Server Faces and it was in Beta for almost 3-4 years and finally they released it.
IE was having XmlHttp object since IE 5. No one cared about it. Now everyone talks about Ajax. Again MS is about to release ASP.NET Ajax. But, officially Java will support Ajax after 2 years from now (hopefully).
MS made .NET as their de-facto platform and have it in 50% of their PC's for these many years. Now, they realized more rich UI will be the future from the success of Flash and planning for WPF/E. But, Sun wont take any initiative till WPF/E is released and become a successful product. These many years both of them (Sun & MS) told they cant provide a tiny VM for browser which can be less than 1 or 2 MB's. Now MS realized and released some sort of plugin for WPF/E, till such time .NET RT is installed in almost 90% of PC's (also, there wont be any competetion for them in Desktop OS for next 10-15 yrs). After 2 yrs, Sun will come and inform they're going planning for something called JAML / SAML.
But, finally, the real issue for peple like us is how to integrate both, cost effectively :)
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Message #238701
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must be the only one
So do I, and all productive teams use MS and VS2005
I can't remember the last java project that actually finished, let alone on time
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